Ok, this is a quick post - a little bit of live-blogging if you will. I'm sitting here at home watching in disbelief as TD Jakes promotes his new book, Reposition Yourself - Living Life Without Limits on TBN. First of all, he has four mimes complete with white face make-up, acting out his sermon in the background as he talks about breaking free of the bonds of mediocrity.
Yikes! And I thought Powerpoint presentations had great potential to divert our attention away from the word, Oh my! Four clowns making wild hand gestures and overly dramatic physical contortions to the tune of a Christian message cancels out the effectiveness of Bishop Jake's usually compelling delivery. Welcome to the brave new world of self-defeating ministry, folks.
He's promoting this book pretty heavily. The sermon he's preaching is lifted from the book and he interrupts himself every few minutes to run a mini-infomercial giving us an inside flap style synopsis of the book's contents. He says it's about personal fulfilment that can be achieved by making small adjustments to your life that, oh by the way, you can only discover if you buy his book. He made a remark that God had given him fresh new perspectives that he is unveiling to the world so we can live the abundant life. The hair on the back of my neck rises every time I hear preachers using words such as 'fresh' and 'new' in the same sentence with 'God' and the 'bible'.
And in an 'Oh my goodness, no he didn't' moment, he actually spouted the old worn cliche' 'God helps those who helps themselves' in the midst of his message! He even quotes the 'faith without works is dead' scripture in support of it. Does he have any inkling of what the grace of God really is? Can man help himself in any way in regards to salvation? Does God expect us to work our way to glory in our own strength? It is utter foolishness at best and rank heresy at worst to make this unsubstantiated claim as if it had any basis in scripture.
I've had enough, time to change the channel. If you are a fan of TD Jakes, may I humbly suggest you do the same.
I think before you become an expert on this, you might READ the BOOK ! Secondly, it was not a sermon nor was it meant to be.... In fact every word was right out of the book and you can't appreciate it if you don't read the context of the book......
ReplyDeleteThanks for your normally interesting perspectives but this was premature emasculation of a good man!
David,
ReplyDeleteI've read one of his books before - at least part of it. I couldn't finish He-Motions because it read more like a Dr. Phil counseling session rather than a preacher sharing God's word. From the 'excerpt' he revealed on TBN last night I'm convinced the content of this book will be little better.
And I didn't emasculate him, but perhaps de-mask-ulated him - if you will forgive my play on words. His agenda seems to be in exalting man which always comes at the cost of diminishing God. This is a much more serious error than most people realize.
Well said Mr. Lucas, we don't need anymore distraction from God's word. That is why i don't watch TBN anymore. Remember the time is at hand. God is going to shake it up to see what will stand. The only thing that will stand will be the true word of God.
ReplyDeleteI am convinced much of the "church" has left their first love. The Bible is clear: "faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God". If a preacher wants to write a book and promote it he certainly has the right, BUT it should NEVER be at the expense of the preached word. We need to be careful in our attempts to over emphasize ourself or any other man from the pulpit. If a Christian wants to sell his book let him do it at the bookstore, not from behind the sacred desk which should hold the sacred book from which he should preach from. I admit I have not watched this particular service with TD nor have I read his book. However I think these comments apply to all of us in this post modern culture.
ReplyDeleteThank you
Pastor Brett Clements
My darling has all but forbidden my watching TBN! LOL! Once I was sharing something from T.D. Jakes (you know silly women are easily tossed to and fro by the wiles of doctrine), and my darling just looked at me in disbelief. He then pulled out his Bible and showed me that it said *exactly opposite* of what T.D. Jakes had just said! YIKES!
ReplyDeleteI guess I feel like the Word of God is convicting on its own and doesn't need any gimmicks to draw people to love the LORD. (((((HUGS))))) sandi
Brett,
ReplyDeleteThe 'faith comes by hearing...' scripture has become my battle cry in this war against modern evangelicalism. That is the God ordained means He has established to bring men into the kingdom. man preaches the pure word of God, and the Holy Spirit makes it alive in our hearts. It's simple really.
Not by clowns, not by mimes, but by my Spirit saith the Lord!
Titus2woman,
ReplyDeleteThe only program I watch on TBN is 'Way of The Master'. Little else is worth my time... that I'm aware of.
You said, 'I guess I feel like the Word of God is convicting on its own and doesn’t need any gimmicks to draw people to love the LORD'
You have guessed wisely!
Mimes? That's just weird! It truly is the age of self-defeating ministry. :-P
ReplyDeleteSadly, there's a lot of "God helps them who helps themselves" junk on TBN. I went to a church a few years ago that ended up becoming Purpose Driven and Seeker Sensitive, but it also picked up some Prosperity Gospel to boot. During that time of life, my father had just been diagnosed with a fatal, degenerative brain disorder. I'd known prosperity theology was wrong, but I'd never realized before my run-in with it just how hurtful even a small amount in a church can be. It's too bad more people don't turn their TV's off when someone starts spewing it.
~Kelsey
It is always easy to be a hero in a tea cup. As long as your blog invites those who think like you, a good amen is inevitable. In a blog that is circulated amongst your own, you get the joy of being fully endorsed.
ReplyDeleteI continue to be amazed at the the generalizations and total condemnations you place on here. If we listen at any of you long enough we will pick out something you missed quoted or becomes controversial in some way. I know you think if you hadthe visbility you wuold strainten things out and get it right... But you are wrong, you would be hated too.... Anytime a minister shares anything other than chapter and verse, a self apointed watch dog bites him... Enjoy your meal boys and girls, but remember that is what they did with Christ too.. They attacked him for what they thought was heresy!
How do you de-mask something that is in a book? It wasn't hidden sir, it was in plain site.. What you did was opinionate something for which you have no scripture to support. No where in the word did it say that a minister must only speak scripture, only write theology, and never share conseling or lifeskilles. All of you that love people, do it too... But when you do it... I know it is God.... right? You never provide counseling. Hmmmmm I wonder what yoru church is like.
If TD is wrong (and he may be on some issues,) you are too. You are not perfect either. I bet every word you deliver is right ... isn't it? You understand everything there is to know about God and you NEVER share your opinion on anything..... right? But then if you do, yours is always right...isn't it?
Recheck the blog and you will see that this is not true..You share your opinions like it is God's word on people, condemn them as if God called you to do so.... And in this tea cup, your write in, I guess you are always right.....
I am sorry for sounding arguimanative, I just miss the love of the saint and people who are fair and balanced. I miss people who mix criticsms with encouragement for the MANY THOUSANDS of people who have been fed and clothed and loved through these ministries that you attack with out any reservation at all...
I wonder how many wells you dug in Africa,,, or how many battered women's shelters you erected? I wonder how many people you helped throgh Katrina and even if you did all of these things why do you not mention ANY of them in the midst of your snide and critical remarks?
Why do you only mention the self help messages and say nothing about the teachings on the blood that I have in my possesion by him... the rich truth of gospel in countless messages about the prodigal son and other things... Not a word, huh?
Don't you think that is odd if you are truly interested in truth.... why is it always so bias?
Okay good night... I will leave you to your prophet roasting!
One more thing... If Jesus used parables to teach... If we teach children with puppets... If we have Easter plays ,and the Passion of the Christ ( you do know they were just acting out the word too) What SCRIPTURE do you have for Jakes mimes and it being wrong? When did the bible say that power points were wrong... All of that is just your preference..... What Scripure do you have to justify attacking a man of God who won more with mimes to Christ than many of you who attack it.......That's right, NOT ONE! But who cares about facts... lets just attack.
ReplyDeleteJust mean spirited... It is amazing!
It appears I have hit some kind of nerve with you. I don't think it would not be much of a stretch to say you are a fan of Jakes. I just pray you are not another victim of the cult of personality. Because we admire and respect someone does not mean they are always right or that we should blindly follow them wherever they lead us. I learned this lesson the hard way. The scripture is our compass.
ReplyDeleteAgain, I must reiterate I am not condemning Jakes' ministry as a whole, but I believe having watched the entirety of his sermon, that is enough of a context to discern the content therein.
Is "God helps those who helps themselves' found in the bible? Why is he teaching it then? In fact, It strikes a thunderous blow against the very definition of the grace of God. Is this not serious enough an issue to comment on? Should we all be silent like sheep and allow error to go unchecked? Is that scriptural? Is misrepresenting God by teaching error not sin? I'm sorry if I came across as too harsh in my criticism, but I will have to account to God for my silence as well as for my words. TD Jakes may well be a good man, but his teachings that evening fell short.
Do you have any scriptures supporting the use of mimes? Do you have a biblical examples of Jesus or the apostles using dramatic presentations to usher men into the kingdom? The foolishness of preaching transforms people, not man-made entertainment. If the power of the Spirit through the spoken word changes people, all other accompaniments can only serve to distract and take away from it. We need to have more confidence in God to move through the Holy Spirit.
I'm sorry you think I'm mean spirited. To be honest, I'm itching to start posting theological, God-glorifying articles again to restore some balance to my blog. As soon as I finish my current series I plan to do so.
Just a couple of quick comments before moving on.
ReplyDeleteYour post shows we differ fundamentally on several issues. Sola Gratia and Sola Fide for starters.
You said "No the bible doesn’t say that “God helps those who helo themselves” and the tape didn’t say that the bible said that… But the statement is on some level true… God doesn’t bathe us by grace… or send us on an interview by his grace. He doesn’t get us out of debt by prayer alone."
We are saved by grace alone through faith alone and that not even of ourselves, it all is the gift of God. Sanctification also is a work of grace. The Holy Spirit must empower us all the way to the finish line. We must never forget that.
You sound quite pragmatic when you say, "And I beleive that where the bible is silent, maybe we should let people reach people in the way that works for them." The problem here is the bible has given us the message and the method to convey it. Our methods cannot improve upon God's chosen means. Pragmatism has given birth to many destructive practices in our Megachurches and in our mini Megachurches. All in the name of 'whatever works'. The ends do not justify the means in God's economy. Culture may indeed influence our approach, but we must all weave our message to the same end, Jesus Christ died to save sinners. It is not a cultural or social message, It is transcendent, reaching into the heart of every person, convicting them of guilt and bringing them to the feet of the Savior in utter humility.
Mr. Thomas,
ReplyDeleteIt's still "ENTERTAINMENT", nothing wrong with it, except theres a time and a place for it.
Jakes needs to sale hi books, and what better platform then your own t.v. show.
Hey I understand, but when you use your own book to bring a message then I have to ask what is it that you have to say thats more important then the word of God. The disciples and the Apostles never did this kind of stuff. Wow! Everybody wants to be a star!
Many people got saved off the message you dispised... maybe even more than what you won that sunday going yoru way.. I know some would rather doubt the conversion than think that people get saved from movies, plays and yes even mimes! The above statement from Deb seemed totally one dimensional ...... I didn't say it was more important than the word of God... but if the gospel is all we have to say.. don't ever advise anyone of anything else other than the gospel and you won't be hypocritical. But if you advise them in any way other than the gospel you will have answered your own question...
ReplyDeleteNow some will say that Christian television should only deal with the gospel... but anyone who watched it would know that it has doctors giving health tips etc... and I gather from the comments on here you don't like Christian Television... well honestly, some of itt I don't either... But like all TV, it serves diverse people who obviously enjoy some thinga that I do not....... People teaching excercise and much more. You knnow why... we are more than church people.... We are also people with diverse interest and the fact that we have other interest doesn't make us less than you.... maybe just different. I will be glad when those non Charismatics who seem to hate all that Christian TV is.... will finally get one of their many failed attempts at showing other Christians what Christian TV should be like... to work.. So far all of them have failed miserably... Including the SBC's aattempt at Christiian TV... why sream at the darkness, just light a candle!
Okay, I am finished this time for real.. ( I think ;-) Thanks for allowing me to have my say, even though you don't agree and that is fine... I just wanted you to know that MILLIONS of people disagree with you... buy the books, get saved from the sermons and enjoy the creative things you don't.... Believe it or not, they love God and to the surprise of sime of you, will be in heaven too.....
Now we see through a glass darkly..... but even with shades on I know that Christians are not monolythic, they weren't in the arly church and they are not now...Hense so many denominations...... I sure do wish we could love one another more...
Sorry for the crazy, zainy, expectations,
Take care my fellow soldeirs!
DLT
I appreciate your perspective and your civility in discussing them with me.
ReplyDeleteGod Bless.
Just because I dont agree with the way Jakes is marketing his book, has nothing to do with me not loving him or anybody. The man has to sale his book, I'm sure as he teaches from it, almost everybody in the audience has one.
ReplyDeleteDavid Thomas,
ReplyDeleteVery well said ! I think it's time we stop trying to keep God in a box... he made made us in his image and from the look all around us, he's very creative. Christianity is the only religion that is so divided... no wonder why we can't stand. It's hard being a christian today because you have people who are not, telling you how to be one and those who are telling you how to be one. This christian walk is like walking on a tight rope, you can't lean to the legalistic side, nor to the liberal side. The only way to walk it is to do as the bible says "worry about the beam pole in our own eye" or we just might trip and have to have one of THOSE people (critical) help us up.
Also we fail to realize that sites and comments like these only help to bring down the body of Christ. We should be fighting with each other not against. Outsiders laugh at our division, because we're destroying ourselves.
PONDER: The kingdom of darkness are not divided; they know the power of unity. So what if someone listens to christian rap or prays for 10 minutes or what ever... if God is in us, then we should see what he sees...the heart!
I watched the broadcast - and I was impacted. While you can preach Christ to unbelievers, seasoned christians need other methods to encourage change. Paul wrote the epistles. TD Jakes thinks of new ways to inspire christian living. Has anyone who have made previously comments, impact a tenth of the people that TD Jakes has impacted?
ReplyDeleteIt seems that people are soooo very judgemental. I witness people coming to Christ when I mime even without music or a sermon. So are you saying that those individuals are NOT saved because of the WAY in which they gave their life to the Lord? It's amazing how things that are done differently are criticized!! Please don't forget that jesus used parables all the time. The most important thing is that souls were saved. You are totally missing the true essence of why we are here. When God speaks to me and send me out to mime, I go. If yo have an issue with that, you have an issue with the Father. Just do your part in the way God gives it to YOU!
ReplyDeleteKay,
ReplyDeleteI am curious how miming communicates the Gospel in such a way as to get people saved. How does that work exactly?
And I have a question for you. Why did Jesus use parables? Hint: He gives the answer himself.
Bizzare. Discernment is a vital tool of defense for the Christian; we don't accept everyone who comes, naming the name of our Savior. We test everything, with the pronouncec blessing of that very Savior.
ReplyDeleteIn the end, it's more loving to fight, contend for the truth; than it is to sit passively while wolves in disguise devour the purity of the gospel....the gospel which, by the by, not only saves, but santifies. Seasoned Christians are in just as much need for the gospel, as unbelievers. The Spirit simply applies it differently, according to each one's need.
This isn't very complicated stuff.
First of all I want to say there are many ways of spreading the gospel and miming is one of them. In the body of Christ, there is the head, the eye , the nose not every one can be the eye, just the same way not everyone should share the faith through preaching only.
ReplyDeleteHowever, this does not justify going against the word of God. "God helps us when we humble ourselves and seek his help". Not the way Jakes implied that God helps those who help themselves
There are too many people trying to make $$$$ on God's word.
ReplyDeleteWhether they can make a buck blatantly slamming Christianity or doing it subtlely. Rick Warren's PD books are just one big marketing scheme that never end. There is the never ending T shirts, book markers, lazy prepared sermons, bumper stickers, etc.
I know its a bit off subject, but there is a guy who has a theory about Abe Lincoln suffering from some sort of cancer and they want to exhume his body. Turns out the guy is trying to pump his three books on the subject.
No doubt that if Jesus had not risen from the dead and there was a body available, they would be digging that up to prove some wacky theory and sell a lot of books and T shirts.